Great video. As someone who never played DND prior to a few months ago, I was just recently introduced to OSE and love it. The amount of player agency makes it so much fun. It has inspired me to write my own old school content!
I started playing D&D in 1982 with the red box, then we moved on to Advanced D&D that following year. I loved it. I played second edition with a new group, then again in the Navy. I’ve been re-reading my original books because I miss the simplicity of the characters and actions and the deadliness of our encounters when exploring. Today unfortunately feels too much like video games, with too many options and choices and powers. I enjoyed 5th edition, but it’s not what I loved about D&D.
I’m right there with you. Funny thing is that the kid groups I’ve run prefer the old stuff vs 5e. They’ve said that they feel less constrained and the game is more open.
When 3rd ED came out, I bought the DM's and Player's Handbook. Read them in one night... ...returned them the next day. Haven't touched a thing from the game.
Great comments! I started in college in 1980 with AD&D. I played until my first son was born. Now that I am nearing retirement, I looked at 5e, and I almost don't recognize it. I would love to find an AD&D group.
Very interested to see any future Hyperborea videos you do! I'm currently running my first D&D game for about 20 years, and Hyperborea is the system I've chosen to run with. Having a two decade hiatus means I experienced the transition from AD&D to 3e, but fell out of the hobby soon after, and then skipped 4th and now 5th edition. This video nails why I decided to resume with OSR rather than 5e!
Nice video I started in '75 using the White Box and progressed to Holmes, AD&D and AD&D 2e. Tried 3e, and hated it went back to AD&D 2e and still play that to this day (2 different campaigns)
Started 1979 after school in the English lit. classroom. So great because it was all creativity. Our DM was a phenom. And that my friends is the key to any edition u play. DM. Also played En Garde. Two World Nuclear Risk.
I played AD&D in the 80s. I DMed 4E and Pathfinder (2008 - 2014). Then I went back to Old School (Basic Fantasy, OSRIC, and my favorite Swords & Wizardry). Swords & Wizardry is great with many classes (assassin, ranger, druid..), 9 levels of magic-user spells, and only one number for all saving throws.
D&D was not my first rodeo... or even my 3rd. When I decided to run a game, it was the Red Box. I loved it. I loved the Blue box (I already told you why I had very little experience in playing AD&D). But I was pretty obsessive about reading and playing lots of other games, so I did not have the die hard loyalty to D&D like others (I just always wanted to have it in my life, even if I only played it every once in a while). I really did enjoy playing AD&D 2E with you, and wish we would had played more (and even play OSE). New D&D is a mixed bag for me. I don't really care that the game has changed a lot, but I wish someone who loved the game and respects it's history owned it, but that's never going to happen (unless Musk buys it out lol). And for anyone curious: DM's guild is really inexpensive PODs of the old books, which is great for when there are people who are running it, and you need a PHB or two. I just wish the 2E books had a hardback options. I still need to buy the D&D Cyclopedia one of these days!
A magic-user player asking all the other players to skip out on all their loot. Which also means skipping out on using their experience to level. That way, the magic-user gets an opportunity for another spell, materials to write another spellbook for safe keeping, or creation of a magical item. The magical options in AD&D were costly endeavors. There was an expectation of sacrifice necessary for the potential power that was being offered. Clerics had to contend with their deities' desires. That a DM could put an expectation upon clerics to provide services unto their deities. As such, with much power comes much responsibility. This may explain why fighter was the go to class for players in earlier editions.
Throwing in ACKS (Adventurer Conqueror King System) as a phenomenal OSR BX/BECMI evolution that is extremely well written, has what are lauded as the best domain level rules, and opens up the backend for Judges to be able to create whatever they want. The second edition (Imperial Imprint) core books have been delivered to Kickstarter backers and will be available on DriveThru around New Year’s Day.
My group is all 60 or older and we play 2nd-(some)3rd Ed, we started with ADD and we've all been playing since the early Eighties with tons of House rules.
I really enjoyed old school DnD. I remember running a few games in second edition. I really didn't enjoy Pathfinder or newer DnD. I actually switched to GURPS for my games. GURPS is a very open system where any kind of a game or setting can be implemented. It allows a GM to create games with very different atmosphere. To be honest, after years in this hobby I started to understand that the system doesn't matter as much as your Game Master. A good GM can make a bad system and make it work, or write a story around the system, hiding its flaws. While a bad GM given the best system will not be able to run a good game to save their life. I am fortunate enough to have players that want to play in my games rather than players that want to play a specific system or setting.
I mainly played in the 90s, so AD&D 2nd was around these days and some other games I love until today like Shadowrun 2nd/3rd and some german originals like Midgard and DSA. We started playing again in 2016 with D&D 5th edition and at first I thought that this is the way and we played for almost 5 years and had a lot of fun with it. Until I recognized that we tried playing 5th edition as it would be 1st or 2nd. That was the pivoting point for me and I introduced OSE to my group (after a short detour over Warhammer Fantasy 4th, that we all didn't like at all because of the complexity). Since we made that change back to an old-school-system it just feels right for me. And yes, very much of it is definitely nostalgia and there is no shame in it. I don't shame people too that play 5th edition because there are different playstyles and things you love and for a younger generation of players nostalgia maybe is 2015 and not 1990 (as it is for me) and there is nothing wrong with it. I really love the OSR-movement because it makes these games available and consumable for a generation of players that never had the chance to experience another way of playing.
totally agree. I started with 5e, now running long term campaigns in both 2e & b/x. Both games are a blast every session. Old school is what I expected the game to be like when I was a kid, so no wonder most of my 5e sessions were boring slogs of meaningless attrition conflicts with no real stakes. There was no immersion, no ryhme or reason to become invested in the world. As soon as I read and furthermore when I played old school for the first time, I felt all that had been missing from my life. It was a similar feeling to nostalgia, like returning to a home I never knew I had.
Awesome explanation. Sums up my feelings exactly. A couple years ago I moved my players over to Dungeon Crawl Classics, its a great OSR rules set based on 3.5. However, the magic system is insane and like nothing that's ever existed in an RPG Ive played. Once our current campaign concludes, Im taking us back to 2nd edition Darksun and Im going to run the Original modules for that setting!
Disclosure: 3.5/PF1 became and remain my weapons of choice as DM; call it a better match between mechanics and my personal style and needs. That said, if someone asked me to run a 1E game tomorrow, I'd be, "Hell, yeah!" Still have my hardcovers and the 1E PH as a pdf.
cool vid. I started with ADND 1e, left the hobby in the early nineties, came back in 2020, was a bit overwhelmed with the vastness of the hobby, and not too impressed with the latest pastel version of the OG game. so i wrote my own. Nothing as in depth as 5e, far less choices so game play moves quicker and combat is simpler. we like it. cheers
Having zero knowledge about D&D, it was still very interesting to listen :) Quick question... have you ever considered to make a video/stream from a session where you're a DM? Would it be even doable...?
Great stuff. I've been playing D&D since '83, and have been DM'ing since '88. Still running a 30+ year 2E campaign. I of course kept up with things over the years, including converting both 3E and 5E adventures. I was also on the alpha test groups for 5E back in 2013. I've watched the popularity rise over the years, particularly with Covid but, I've simultaneously watched the great dissatisfaction. Back in the day we used to talk about how what we called 'min max'ing' was ruining the game. Well, that's exactly what editions beyond 2E did. And so, here we are. Well, at least those who moved on to later editions. 'Old school' play works simply because it keeps the focus where it should be: on the play.
Domain play wasn’t really a thing in old-school D&D. The original first campaigns did it, but by the early 80s module play was the primary way to play and domain play was largely forgotten. It also didn’t help that AD&D didn’t have a lot of explicit support to run campaign games apart from army and castle costs.
BECMI D&D went in whole-hog on domain/war mechanics and my group did in fact use that material. So there's no one-size-fits-all old school D&D experience to cite in this case, just yours and mine.
I played old school from 1982 to 2010, so i played all the classes/kits worth playing! In 83 i found Palladium Fantasy and preferred it since it had a better magic and Psionics system, skills, more cinematic combat and a decent alignment system! My favorite TTRPG's and systems: 1-Cypher(generic), 2-Teenagers From Outer Space(anime), 3-Gamma World 4E(not based on D&D 4E)(post apocalyptic), 4-All Flesh Must be Eaten(zombie), 5-Battlelords of the 23rd Century(sci-fi), 6-Pathfinder 1E(fantasy), 7-5E(fantasy), 8-Palladium system(generic), 9-AD&D(fantasy), 10-Shadow of the Demon Lord(sci-fantasy/horror) and 11-Star Frontiers(sci-fi)
Oh God... I did the same thing. I tried 5E. I've spent more on it than any other edition and I had so many house rules I got lost. The game is broken. They even know it, just don't care.
We started around same time with same edition. I mostly disagree with you but I stand with view each to their own table. Hey at least I got to 14 minutes mark, I could see it would be an interesting discussion but just listening you... nah.
The ignorant 5th edition board gamers have no clue what your talking about. There is a lot of clueless players in our hobby the last 10 years. And DM's. Run into them at conventions.
Great video. As someone who never played DND prior to a few months ago, I was just recently introduced to OSE and love it. The amount of player agency makes it so much fun. It has inspired me to write my own old school content!
That’s awesome to hear! Welcome!
I started playing D&D in 1982 with the red box, then we moved on to Advanced D&D that following year. I loved it. I played second edition with a new group, then again in the Navy. I’ve been re-reading my original books because I miss the simplicity of the characters and actions and the deadliness of our encounters when exploring. Today unfortunately feels too much like video games, with too many options and choices and powers. I enjoyed 5th edition, but it’s not what I loved about D&D.
I’m right there with you. Funny thing is that the kid groups I’ve run prefer the old stuff vs 5e. They’ve said that they feel less constrained and the game is more open.
Contemporary D&D has been MMO-ified
When 3rd ED came out, I bought the DM's and Player's Handbook.
Read them in one night...
...returned them the next day.
Haven't touched a thing from the game.
Great comments! I started in college in 1980 with AD&D. I played until my first son was born. Now that I am nearing retirement, I looked at 5e, and I almost don't recognize it. I would love to find an AD&D group.
1st and 2nd edition guy here... and nothing this excellent video says makes me want to even try 5th
Very interested to see any future Hyperborea videos you do! I'm currently running my first D&D game for about 20 years, and Hyperborea is the system I've chosen to run with. Having a two decade hiatus means I experienced the transition from AD&D to 3e, but fell out of the hobby soon after, and then skipped 4th and now 5th edition. This video nails why I decided to resume with OSR rather than 5e!
Old School Grognard since 1982.
1981 in the house.
Me too
Nice video I started in '75 using the White Box and progressed to Holmes, AD&D and AD&D 2e. Tried 3e, and hated it went back to AD&D 2e and still play that to this day (2 different campaigns)
That’s awesome to hear
Started 1979 after school in the English lit. classroom.
So great because it was all creativity. Our DM was a phenom. And that my friends is the key to any edition u play. DM.
Also played En Garde. Two World Nuclear Risk.
I played AD&D in the 80s. I DMed 4E and Pathfinder (2008 - 2014). Then I went back to Old School (Basic Fantasy, OSRIC, and my favorite Swords & Wizardry). Swords & Wizardry is great with many classes (assassin, ranger, druid..), 9 levels of magic-user spells, and only one number for all saving throws.
S&W is a great game
D&D was not my first rodeo... or even my 3rd. When I decided to run a game, it was the Red Box. I loved it. I loved the Blue box (I already told you why I had very little experience in playing AD&D). But I was pretty obsessive about reading and playing lots of other games, so I did not have the die hard loyalty to D&D like others (I just always wanted to have it in my life, even if I only played it every once in a while).
I really did enjoy playing AD&D 2E with you, and wish we would had played more (and even play OSE). New D&D is a mixed bag for me. I don't really care that the game has changed a lot, but I wish someone who loved the game and respects it's history owned it, but that's never going to happen (unless Musk buys it out lol).
And for anyone curious: DM's guild is really inexpensive PODs of the old books, which is great for when there are people who are running it, and you need a PHB or two. I just wish the 2E books had a hardback options. I still need to buy the D&D Cyclopedia one of these days!
Castles & Crusaders by Gary Gygax has everything you want. Best modern version of AD&D hands down.
I’ll agree
Finally, someone who appreciates the value of Appendix N.
A magic-user player asking all the other players to skip out on all their loot. Which also means skipping out on using their experience to level. That way, the magic-user gets an opportunity for another spell, materials to write another spellbook for safe keeping, or creation of a magical item.
The magical options in AD&D were costly endeavors. There was an expectation of sacrifice necessary for the potential power that was being offered. Clerics had to contend with their deities' desires. That a DM could put an expectation upon clerics to provide services unto their deities. As such, with much power comes much responsibility.
This may explain why fighter was the go to class for players in earlier editions.
Throwing in ACKS (Adventurer Conqueror King System) as a phenomenal OSR BX/BECMI evolution that is extremely well written, has what are lauded as the best domain level rules, and opens up the backend for Judges to be able to create whatever they want. The second edition (Imperial Imprint) core books have been delivered to Kickstarter backers and will be available on DriveThru around New Year’s Day.
Yes! I realized during editing that I forgot to mention ACKS. Once I get my ACKS II books I plan on doing a review.
My group is all 60 or older and we play 2nd-(some)3rd Ed, we started with ADD and we've all been playing since the early Eighties with tons of House rules.
Thank You for the great video ! Very inspiring!
I really enjoyed old school DnD. I remember running a few games in second edition. I really didn't enjoy Pathfinder or newer DnD. I actually switched to GURPS for my games. GURPS is a very open system where any kind of a game or setting can be implemented. It allows a GM to create games with very different atmosphere. To be honest, after years in this hobby I started to understand that the system doesn't matter as much as your Game Master. A good GM can make a bad system and make it work, or write a story around the system, hiding its flaws. While a bad GM given the best system will not be able to run a good game to save their life. I am fortunate enough to have players that want to play in my games rather than players that want to play a specific system or setting.
I mainly played in the 90s, so AD&D 2nd was around these days and some other games I love until today like Shadowrun 2nd/3rd and some german originals like Midgard and DSA. We started playing again in 2016 with D&D 5th edition and at first I thought that this is the way and we played for almost 5 years and had a lot of fun with it. Until I recognized that we tried playing 5th edition as it would be 1st or 2nd. That was the pivoting point for me and I introduced OSE to my group (after a short detour over Warhammer Fantasy 4th, that we all didn't like at all because of the complexity). Since we made that change back to an old-school-system it just feels right for me. And yes, very much of it is definitely nostalgia and there is no shame in it. I don't shame people too that play 5th edition because there are different playstyles and things you love and for a younger generation of players nostalgia maybe is 2015 and not 1990 (as it is for me) and there is nothing wrong with it. I really love the OSR-movement because it makes these games available and consumable for a generation of players that never had the chance to experience another way of playing.
Man…DSA was my first ever RPG back in 1989. I still have a book or two from that edition. I have the newest edition of DSA but haven’t played it.
totally agree. I started with 5e, now running long term campaigns in both 2e & b/x. Both games are a blast every session. Old school is what I expected the game to be like when I was a kid, so no wonder most of my 5e sessions were boring slogs of meaningless attrition conflicts with no real stakes. There was no immersion, no ryhme or reason to become invested in the world. As soon as I read and furthermore when I played old school for the first time, I felt all that had been missing from my life. It was a similar feeling to nostalgia, like returning to a home I never knew I had.
That’s awesome to hear
Awesome explanation. Sums up my feelings exactly. A couple years ago I moved my players over to Dungeon Crawl Classics, its a great OSR rules set based on 3.5. However, the magic system is insane and like nothing that's ever existed in an RPG Ive played. Once our current campaign concludes, Im taking us back to 2nd edition Darksun and Im going to run the Original modules for that setting!
Sweet! DCC is crazy but a blast.
Hail OSE and C&C! (Great episode!)
Thanks!
I’m too young to remember old D&D. I must say what you describe sounds more interesting than modern editions.
Disclosure: 3.5/PF1 became and remain my weapons of choice as DM; call it a better match between mechanics and my personal style and needs. That said, if someone asked me to run a 1E game tomorrow, I'd be, "Hell, yeah!" Still have my hardcovers and the 1E PH as a pdf.
Nothing wrong with that. I enjoyed running 3.5e for many years.
cool vid. I started with ADND 1e, left the hobby in the early nineties, came back in 2020, was a bit overwhelmed with the vastness of the hobby, and not too impressed with the latest pastel version of the OG game. so i wrote my own. Nothing as in depth as 5e, far less choices so game play moves quicker and combat is simpler. we like it. cheers
Having zero knowledge about D&D, it was still very interesting to listen :) Quick question... have you ever considered to make a video/stream from a session where you're a DM? Would it be even doable...?
I’ve considered it, but would need to a) have a group willing to be on camera and b) figure out the tech.
Great stuff. I've been playing D&D since '83, and have been DM'ing since '88. Still running a 30+ year 2E campaign. I of course kept up with things over the years, including converting both 3E and 5E adventures. I was also on the alpha test groups for 5E back in 2013. I've watched the popularity rise over the years, particularly with Covid but, I've simultaneously watched the great dissatisfaction. Back in the day we used to talk about how what we called 'min max'ing' was ruining the game. Well, that's exactly what editions beyond 2E did. And so, here we are. Well, at least those who moved on to later editions. 'Old school' play works simply because it keeps the focus where it should be: on the play.
I agree 100%
Domain play wasn’t really a thing in old-school D&D. The original first campaigns did it, but by the early 80s module play was the primary way to play and domain play was largely forgotten. It also didn’t help that AD&D didn’t have a lot of explicit support to run campaign games apart from army and castle costs.
BECMI D&D went in whole-hog on domain/war mechanics and my group did in fact use that material. So there's no one-size-fits-all old school D&D experience to cite in this case, just yours and mine.
Experiences may vary
Great video! B/X All Day!!
I do really love B/X. Thanks for watching.
I played old school from 1982 to 2010, so i played all the classes/kits worth playing! In 83 i found Palladium Fantasy and preferred it since it had a better magic and Psionics system, skills, more cinematic combat and a decent alignment system!
My favorite TTRPG's and systems: 1-Cypher(generic), 2-Teenagers From Outer Space(anime), 3-Gamma World 4E(not based on D&D 4E)(post apocalyptic), 4-All Flesh Must be Eaten(zombie), 5-Battlelords of the 23rd Century(sci-fi), 6-Pathfinder 1E(fantasy), 7-5E(fantasy), 8-Palladium system(generic), 9-AD&D(fantasy), 10-Shadow of the Demon Lord(sci-fantasy/horror) and 11-Star Frontiers(sci-fi)
Exactly this.
Oh God... I did the same thing. I tried 5E. I've spent more on it than any other edition and I had so many house rules I got lost. The game is broken. They even know it, just don't care.
Sadly agree. I sold most of my 5e books aside from the core ones (gotta collect I guess 😂)
agreed.
The link to the blog post is broken.
That’s odd. I’ll need to update it
We started around same time with same edition. I mostly disagree with you but I stand with view each to their own table. Hey at least I got to 14 minutes mark, I could see it would be an interesting discussion but just listening you... nah.
Gee…thanks for the comment 😂
What did you expect @@RealmBuilderGuy for me not being brutally honest about my opinion.
@@Twist3dM1nd 😂 ok
The ignorant 5th edition board gamers have no clue what your talking about. There is a lot of clueless players in our hobby the last 10 years. And DM's. Run into them at conventions.
Because they are just better.